Duoduo, formerly known as Su, was born in Beijing in 195 1, jumped the queue in Baiyangdian in 1969, and then transferred to work in Farmers Daily. /kloc-started writing poetry in 0/972,/kloc-published his works in 0/982, 1989 went abroad. He is currently a professor at the School of Humanities and Communication, Hainan University.

Duoduo is one of the main representative poets of obscure poetry, and he has written 38 Poems, Mileage: Selected Poems of Duoduo 1973- 1988, Selected Poems of Duoduo and other poems. Duoduo has participated in many major poetry festivals in the world, and has given lectures and recitations in universities in more than ten countries, including Britain, the United States, Germany, Italy and Sweden. He also worked as a Chinese teacher at the University of London, and as a resident writer at Newark University in Canada and Leiden University in the Netherlands. Last year, Duoduo was officially hired as a professor by the College of Literature of Hainan University to undertake literature courses for undergraduate and graduate students.

Duo Duo is one of the few explorers of China's modern poetry in 1970s, and his masterpieces, Margery and My Travel, Craft and To the Sun, have always been the precious wealth of China's poetry. During more than ten years of living in Europe, he made unremitting efforts and won the universal respect of domestic and foreign poetry circles.

After living abroad for many years, I came back in 2004, which brought comfort to the restless and noisy China poetry circle. His undiminished creativity has effectively illuminated the shadow that China contemporary poets cannot produce excellent works after middle age. This white-haired child who regards poetry as a toy always reminds people of the original reason why poetry came to this world and restores confidence in poetry. At the beginning of 2005, Huacheng Publishing House published Selected Poems, which caused a sensation in the poetry circle.

● About Baiyangdian: The significance of writing poetry at that time was much higher than today.

Reporter: Many sources say that your writing started in Baiyangdian, and even formed a "Baiyangdian Poetry Group", including Munk, Yue Zhong, Genzi and others.

Toto: At first we gathered there and didn't realize that we would write poetry in the future, because no one wrote poetry at that time. That's the end of 1968. We didn't even have a hunch at the time. At that time, we boarded the train on a very cold night and the whistle sounded. The train unloaded us to a place, and then we took a truck of more than 70 kilometers to a county town, and then hired a carriage to pull the luggage to Baiyangdian.

Reporter: How did you get into poetry?

Toto: Munk wrote poems first, and then Yue Zhong. 1970 started writing poems in Beijing. Before that, the poem of forefinger had been circulated underground. No one can explain this history clearly, including me. It is out of the question. Keep it mysterious. Why not? Why does everything have to be disassembled? This is a habit of people today. We should make everything clear. To some extent, this is a kind of destruction to poetry. You can't crack it, you can only destroy it.

Reporter: Were there many young people writing poems at that time?

Toto: Not much, actually.

Reporter: What's the feeling of writing poetry in such an environment and atmosphere?

Toto: At that time, writing poems could have many meanings. In any case, the significance of writing poetry at that time was definitely higher than today. Because there is no possibility in our life. For example, I like movies very much, but you can't make a movie, because movies need collective production, investment and many things. You jump the queue in the countryside, what else can you do? What can you imagine? It is impossible to go back to the city as a worker. This forms people's very decisive attitude, and you have no choice. There was a piece of paper, a pen and endless imagination. Sometimes inspiration comes and flows on paper, and the next day is self-worship. What is this thing that is not given by God? So I established a relationship with poetry very early. This is a real choice.

● About misty poetry: Poets should focus on writing.

Reporter: As a contemporary, what do you think of misty poetry?

Toto: First of all, there are no vague poems. This is an imposed concept. Ask every vague poet and no one will agree with this concept.

I have read their works, but I haven't read misty poems. Misty poetry has become the label of cultural factions at a certain stage, and then all these people are put together. In fact, I have never seen Liang until today. Xu Jingya and Wang Xiaoni only met at Hainan University. Everyone is over 50 years old, just met, and met for the first time.

The works after the "Cultural Revolution" are the products of a special era. In poetry, it is far from what people praise, and I don't think this blind praise is a respect for poetry.

Reporter: People's understanding of you has even been delayed 10 years, 20 years. What do you think of this?

Toto: No problem. Because these questions have nothing to do with me This is not my problem, nor is it my problem. Why should I bear this statement?

I take a natural attitude now. What do you care about them and those concepts? After five years, these things will naturally disappear, and there will be other more bizarre statements. Everything will be there, but time is the best judge, and only things that go beyond time will be left to the end. So these questions are naive. What was Du Li arguing about? We all read their works today. It is good for a poet to concentrate on writing. What does he care?

Reporter: But now people have unusual enthusiasm for you and speak highly of you.

Toto: It's not normal either. I'm still writing. Don't judge me.

Reporter: Do you read the works of young poets?

Toto: Many years ago, we had an established rule: if we didn't read the things of our contemporaries or people close to us, the river would stick to it. I don't have this principle, but I am also far and near.

Unlike critics, poets do not need to be arbiters. Good things will naturally be passed on from mouth to mouth. Do poets need to be a walking dictionary of contemporary poetry? I don't like being such a person.

● On utilitarianism: I will never sacrifice my poetry.

Reporter: What do you think of the relationship between poetry and society? Do you want to get involved in society with your own works?

Toto: On the eve of the end of the Cultural Revolution, everyone posted poems in Tiananmen Square. I was in the square, but I didn't post a poem. My principle has always been that poetry cannot be used as propaganda material, because poetry is not just a simple judgment of good and evil, it has a higher and greater coverage. I will never sacrifice my poetry. I solved this problem 20 years ago.

Reporter: You mean that poetry should not directly serve utilitarian purposes?

Toto: Poetry is poetry. For example, in June+February, 5438, Russian communist party's poems, who will read them today? 65438+ February, party member, poetry, poetry should not be. /kloc-What happened to Du Li 0/300 years ago? Why do you want to see it? Like Mayakovski, although his poems have political connotations and even propaganda functions, they are above these things.

Reporter: Poetry is poetry.

Toto: I just said that poetry is excluded poetry. I use this formulation to oppose sacrificing poetry as a tool, mainly against instrumentalism. But on the other hand, what do you mean by poetry? It's another great discourse, because poetry is poetry, so is it something to reject?

Reporter: What does it reject?

Toto: I think only poets will refuse anything, and poetry will not refuse anything. It depends on everyone's absorption ability.

● About the source: the relationship between the tree of knowledge and the tree of life.

Reporter: There seem to be two opposing views on the origin of poetry in contemporary China. One is that personal feelings, even the body, are the source of poetry; Others think that the source of poetry comes from classics. What do you think of this problem?

Toto: Although the views are different, the starting point and the problem itself are the same. This is also a big problem, an old problem, and a problem that everyone has. Especially for now, today's era, it is a big problem. In short, this is the relationship between the tree of knowledge and the tree of life. On the one hand, classical poetry and many things about poetry have become knowledge. On the other hand, you are a living individual with a unique experience. If you blindly admire classics and lack personal experience, your face will easily be covered and submerged by the fur of classic masters, because you have no master's soul. If you blindly believe in personal experience, stay away from culture, don't take poetry as a major at all, and completely ignore the existence of this long river of poetry, then you are probably swimming on the shore. After swimming for a while, you will find that you can't swim. Why can't you swim? Because cultural accomplishment and more elements are the fuel of writing. It is meaningless to say that there is a balance between the two, and the balance cannot be solved. Therefore, there is no way to solve poetry. Death is not a fixed problem. Poetry is still something that faces particularity, and there can be no definition or rules.

Generally speaking, people always start from themselves, in short, they want to express themselves. However, poetry is not expression, only prose can express it. This is the basic definition I tell my students. He said what the poem expressed. I said you didn't look when you used the expression. What is the meaning of expression? I know, and then say it. Poetry is not, you don't know. I may know a little when I write, and I may know it when I finish, but at least it is temporary, not existing. Expressed in the form of poetry. Poetry has three stages: first, it is the first; Second, intelligence input; Third, integration.

Reporter: What kind of poetry do you pursue?

Toto: My favorite poet is always changing. For example, from Baudelaire to Zvetayeva to René? Charles ... You're right. A poet always has some pursuit of poetry. I am a poet, so my appreciation of poetry is naturally not just an appreciator.

I am more concerned about finding a poet who has an original relationship with me. We are from the same constellation. People will instinctively choose what is close to them, which has something to do with their type, and what they like best is the most important, no matter how much or how little. Some roads have been set internally, that is to say, you may be doing what he has not finished, which naturally recognizes a kind of inheritance relationship, a kind of * * *. I have a conversation with them. This breaks a line. Those who agree with you are probably dead, and you may not know how long they have been dead. Poetry is a mysterious thing in essence.

Reporter: Can you give us some clues about which poets are in the same constellation as you?

Toto: The so-called same constellation is to find the art, a genre or a poet that you admire most in a certain period and see if it can still go on in today's era. You should explore this road through your own writing to verify whether it can still exist.

Do you know what poetry is? Poetry is a very advanced thing, representing a nation and the most dignified part of a language. But now some poets are destroying this dignity, which must be admitted.

Reporter: You just mentioned that you are destroying the dignity of your mother tongue. Is there any specific explanation?

Toto: It's hard to define this in detail, but every poet must have a steelyard in his heart. Nowadays, literature is market-oriented. If you want to get rid of all the bad things and turn them into pure things, it's probably wishful thinking. Besides, who will set the standards? There is no answer to all this, and it is more about the poet himself.

● About foreign countries: writing is difficult to live abroad.

Reporter: Do China's poets and writers have a chance to enter the mainstream system abroad?

Toto: It is possible for you to write in their language, which is the most important thing. However, publishing your poems and holding a recitation of your works does not mean that you have entered the mainstream society. More importantly, can you influence that society and how big is it? For overseas China writers, these influences may be short-lived and have no lasting influence. Living by writing abroad is actually a harsh situation. People are born within the system, and you are halfway. Think about it.

Reporter: Do you write in other languages?

Toto: I don't think so, especially poetry.

Reporter: Is it particularly lonely to write without your mother tongue? In your poem, you said, "My motherland flows slowly through the river in Amsterdam ..."

Toto: Shouldn't writing be lonely? My writing has nothing to do with the environment.

Reporter: What is the biggest difference between foreign poets and domestic poets?

Toto: The names of many poems by China suddenly disappeared after shining for a period of time, and many poets went into business. In the west, the most important poets are those who participated in or were born in World War II. The best poets are all around 60. It is rare to hear that they abandoned poetry and went to sea. Their writing life will be longer, that is, they will be more persistent.

About poetry and novels: I have to write a poem 70 times.

Reporter: You have also written some novels.

Toto: I haven't written a novel for a long time.

Reporter: There is still a big difference between poetry and fiction. You are somewhere between two writing styles. ...

Toto: Generally speaking, many writers are born in poetry, and once they write novels, they rarely come back. There are a few exceptions, the most famous of which is Hardy. He wrote poems first, then novels, and then interrupted novels to become a poet, and he wrote very well. If we want to go hand in hand, I'm afraid there will be such examples in the history of literature, but there are few. You should always be positioned as a poet or novelist.

I am like a tree. When I grow to a complete height, I have been doing novels, poems, essays and plays because I have strong energy. I can be thirty or forty years old. Later, you found that you had to make a choice and concentrate. Just like the crown of a tree, when you reach the top, you must concentrate. It's impossible to develop so many branches, otherwise it's hard for you to do your best, and you may not be able to do anything well. So I made a choice.

Reporter: Your recently published poems illustrate your choice.

Toto: I'm more suitable for writing poetry. A poem has to be written 70 times, so it is terrible to write a novel. I think I have achieved one thing in my life: doing what I want to do. I don't force myself. In this sense, I thank God that I am still doing what I want to do.

Reporter: There are many dashes in your recent works, and the rhythm seems to have accelerated.

Toto: It has something to do with the rhythm of breathing.

Reporter: You seem to pay special attention to the rhythm.

Toto: I talked about rhythm in the 1970s and contacted Dylan in the 1980s. Thomas's phrase rhythm was really used after the 1990s. I especially like the cross talk, Shandong Kuaishu and Allegro in China Quyi.

● About inheritance: I advocate "borrowing poetry to revive the soul"

Reporter: China's modern poets always seem to wander between western modern poetry and China's traditional poetry, and seem to have some kind of break with the latter.

Toto: How old is the history of modern poetry in China? It's only been more than 30 years, which is nothing compared with the western tradition, and even less compared with the tradition of ancient poetry in China. So why should we jump to conclusions about this?

Poetry is a kind of inherited history. For me, this inheritance is China's ancient poems in the vertical direction and western modern poems in the horizontal direction. As early as 1968, I wrote more than 30 ancient poems. A little earlier, 1967, and read Yuan Mei's poems in the Garden. Others, such as Wang Guowei's Tales on Earth and Du Li, have all been read. I personally like Xin Qiji's poems and his lofty sentiments. And Jiang Kui, from whom I learned imagery. This kind of classical culture, whether it is cultivation or nutrition, is preparation. For poets, a lot of preparation is unconscious. At that time, I never thought that I would write poetry in the future. But this influence is fatal, because the essence of Chinese is here. The most exquisite and dignified part of Chinese is here. China's ancient poetry is undoubtedly a peak of human poetry. Another peak is modern western poetry. Together, these two peaks have become my two major pressures. So, I lived with problems from the beginning. Now I live in problems, and I will die in problems in the future.

Reporter: So, how should we inherit the tradition?

Duoduo: Of course, we must learn and inherit the tradition, but it is not the entanglement of details and the imitation of external fur, but the soul whose essence is close to tradition. I advocate "reviving the soul through poetry"

Reporter: What is the soul of classical poetry?

Toto: The soul is a problem in the spiritual field. To talk about this, there must be a premise, that is, whether you admit that there is a soul. I admit there is a soul. Moreover, the soul is the ultimate destination of the poet and the ultimate goal of poetry. What is more important than writing is to shape yourself.

The ancients said "meditation for half a day, reading for half a day", but did not say "reading for half a day, writing poetry for half a day", which shows that "cultivation" is of extraordinary significance to life. Now most poets spend half a day on the computer and reading books, which shows that our way of life has changed, but in any case, we should at least "meditate".

Whether you are an ancient person or a modern person, this inner quality will transcend time and history. This is a person's soul.