Li Hongzhang: The recent changes in your country are really impressive and commendable. However, one thing you can't agree with is that your country blindly imitates European customs and changes the dress system since ancient times.
Senyouli: Actually, the reason for changing the clothing system is very simple ... Faced with the progress of the current situation, it is not convenient to inherit the clothing system, so I changed my old clothes and put on new foreign clothes. The intention of the Chinese people to voluntarily change the service system obviously outweighs the disadvantages, which is more beneficial to the country.
-from Li Wenzhong's book of merit.
Before the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-18951month, Japanese Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Mori came to Beijing to take up his post. After passing through Tianjin, Li Hongzhang, then Governor of Zhili and Minister of Beiyang Trade, specially met Sen Youli, and they had a long talk. This conversation is not simple, it is a dialogue between two potential powers that are changing, and it is also a high-level dialogue about the Westernization Movement and the Meiji Restoration. This conversation was recorded at that time, and even the translated words were recorded. Summarized as follows.
After the greeting, Li Hongzhang brought the topic to the cultural level. He asked Sen Youli about Chinese and Western cultures. Sen's polite answer surprised Li Hongzhang: "We Japanese think western learning is very useful, but only three points of your knowledge are useful, and the other seven points are too old and useless."
Li Hongzhang was a little unconvinced and asked sarcastically, "Do you think you have learned 70% of western culture?" Mori Youli said, "I only learned 50%." Li Hongzhang asked hard: "Is it only 50%? You even changed your clothes, where is only 50%? " The implication is that you have lost your most fundamental thing, and you have forgotten your ancestors. Sen Youli thinks it doesn't matter: "It doesn't matter to learn their clothes, but the skills haven't been fully learned." It doesn't matter if Mori Yoshiro is polite, it represents a Japanese mentality. At that time, even the Japanese emperor and his wife wore suits. As for Ito Bowen and his Meiji Restoration leaders, suits were worn earlier.
Li Hongzhang believes that clothes cannot be changed easily. This is a memory and respect for ancestors and should be passed down from generation to generation. Mori Youli said that Japan is a nation that is good at imitation. Now we learn to imitate western culture, which is the same as our ancestors' learning of Datang culture. Sen Youli added another sentence that stung Li Hongzhang: Didn't your braids and costumes in the Qing Dynasty come into being under the threat of bayonets? As a minister of the Qing Dynasty, Li Hongzhang had to talk about him.
The two sides also talked about the treaty with the West. Sen's polite attitude is: it is useless to make peace with western countries. This reflected Japan's dissatisfaction with Europe and America at that time, but it also showed that Japanese militarism was good at tearing up peace treaties. If President Roosevelt had understood this conversation, Pearl Harbor might not have succeeded.
Li Hongzhang said: the reconciliation between the two countries depends entirely on the treaty. How can you say it's useless? Mori Yoshiro's polite answer exposed the Japanese ambition: if it is trade, it will certainly be done through treaties. But if a country wants to "make a difference", it depends on who is strong, not on the treaty.
Li Hongzhang scoffed at this: "This is a fallacy." He pointed to a glass of wine on the table and said to the translator: The human heart is like this glass of wine, and the treaty is "harmony". Just like this cup, if there is no cup constraint, the wine will overflow. Sen Youli doesn't agree: the so-called "harmony" is pervasive, cracks will leak, and the cup can't stop it.
Hearing this, Li Hongzhang felt uneasy about the quality of Japan as a whole. He told the translator: Ambassador Sen was young and energetic (then 30 years old). We are about to sign a treaty with Japan on North Korea, so be careful. Then talking about North Korea, Mori Yoshiro said politely: North Korea is very unfriendly to us. Li Hongzhang sarcastically said: Since you have been to Toyotomi Hideyoshi, do they dare to be friendly with you? Besides, your clothes have changed, and so has your writing style. They don't even know you. How can they be friendly to you?