◎ At present, the central government proposes to build a harmonious society, which is a good formulation, defined as six goals, with democracy and the rule of law as the first priority, in line with the national people's hearts and the world trend.
As long as there are no major economic problems and political reform and social transformation come slowly, there is hope. It's no use worrying about China. One generation will always be different from another, the environment is changing, and the whole world situation is changing. So I am not pessimistic, but optimistic.
Socialism in the Soviet Union was regarded as the best socialism in the world at that time.
Xiao Shu: Li, I'm glad to see your lens at the "Literary Evening to Commemorate the 70th Anniversary of the Long March" broadcast by CCTV on June 65438+1October 65438+April.
Li Rui: I am also a veteran. Party member, who joined the Party before the Anti-Japanese War and party member before the Anti-Japanese War, belonged to the Red Army generation.
Laugh at Shu: 70 years have passed since the Long March. As an older generation of revolutionaries who joined the Party before the Anti-Japanese War, today, can you talk about what you think of socialism that you have been fighting for all your life? You joined the * * * production party in your early years, and of course you yearned for socialism. So what was the socialism you imagined at that time?
Li Rui: I joined the producer. What is the reason? Because Japan invaded to save the country.
In September 18th, I was a freshman. The patriotic atmosphere in the school is very strong and the social influence is quite intense. I went to primary school and middle school in Changsha. There were British and Japanese warships on the Xiangjiang River at that time. The June 1st Massacre took place in Changsha, probably in 1923. Japanese soldiers landed and fired at the shore, killing two people, one of whom was a child, seriously injuring nine people and slightly injuring more than 30 people. 1928, a bigger "May 3rd tragedy" happened in Jinan. During the Japanese attack, more than 3,000 soldiers and civilians were killed and a dozen diplomats were killed. May 7th of that year, the day when the Japanese army forced China to sign Article 2 1, was designated as National Shame Day, which was commemorated by the school every year. These events are a great stimulus to us.
Then there is the family influence. Father Li Yu 1905 went to Japan to study. When he first arrived in Japan, he met Sun Yat-sen's first speech in Tokyo. After listening to this, his father cut his braid and joined the league. He and Song were classmates at Waseda University and friends with Huang Xing and Qiu Jin. He was elected to the House of Representatives in 2000, so my two sisters and I were born in Beijing. He later followed Sun Yat-sen and went to Guangdong to attend the "Extraordinary Congress". He soon returned to Changsha and died in 1922.
Xiaoshu: How old are you?
Li Rui: Under 5 years old. My mother Li Zhangshu graduated from Qi Ming Women's Normal School in Pingjiang in the late Qing Dynasty. She is deeply influenced by her father and has a lot of culture. The couple can sing poems together. When I was a child, I heard from my mother that Japan had great ambitions for China. For example, when oranges are delicious, Japanese teachers teach children that the best oranges are in China, and if they want to eat oranges, they have to go to China. My father left me a desk, which contained the Records of Rong Ai and Collected Works of Drinking Ice Room by Song, Huang Xing and Qiu Jin. So I knew from an early age that the Japanese would destroy China.
I wrote a left-wing novel in high school, and our class also ran a wall newspaper to promote patriotism, which had a great influence among my classmates. 1934 when I graduated from high school, I went to college and was admitted to engineering colleges because of my good foundation in science and the influence of saving the country through science. After the December 29th Movement, I devoted myself to the national salvation movement.
Xiao Shu: Your whole student life is influenced by the left wing.
Li Rui: It's all left-wing influence, especially that of Lu Xun. I have read many books by Lu Xun, which can also be bought in bookstores.
There is also the relationship between fellow villagers. My hometown is Pingjiang, Hunan. In Pingjiang, there was a * * * production party organization a long time ago, with the foundation left by the Great Revolution and Peng Uprising. The struggle between red and white is very fierce. My family has a deep relationship with the producers of * * *. My father's two fellow villagers' confidants were both key figures in the early days of the founding of the Party. Fang is the teacher of the first normal school, and the other is Li. In the Northern Expedition, they were all representatives of the divisions of Tan Second Army. Li wrote a novel autobiography "Sixty Years of Changes", which mentioned my mother-"Li's daughter-in-law".
Fang also studied in Japan and came back to be a member of Hunan Province, about the same age as my father (my father was born in 1882). Li was six or seven years younger than my father, participated in the Revolution of 1911, and went to Japan to study in 19 13. Influenced by Sichuan, she founded a school in Changsha, a trade union and a peasant association in her hometown, and met Mao Zedong. From 65438 to 0922, he joined the Party through Mao's introduction and served as the secretary-general of the office during War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression's time. His original wife and my mother were classmates. I often went to Li's house in those days. Mrs. Li told my mother: I don't know how many times I washed my long woolen coat. Hair is unsanitary. After the death of his father, when the coffin was transported back to Pingjiang by water, Fang touched the coffin and wept bitterly. 1934, Fang was killed by the Kuomintang on the Hunan-Jiangxi border.
One is social influence, and the other is family influence. As my mother told me, my father thinks that the world will be a * * * production party in the future. So I have been leaning to the left since I was a child. Mainly dissatisfied with Chiang Kai-shek, Japanese aggression against Chiang Kai-shek did not resist, engaged in dictatorship, one party, one doctrine and one leader. I think China wants democracy and prosperity, and hopes to have a party in * * *.
During the "December 29" movement, I was the head of the riots in Wuhan University, and later the head of the Wuhan Secret Student Union. In the school, there is an open student salvation association, more than 40 progressive students, and a secret "Wu Da Youth Salvation Group" has been established. Because there are teaching assistants, not all students.
There was no party organization in Wuhan at that time. 1936 in the second half of the year, people from eight or nine secret societies we trusted most spontaneously established the * * * production party organization: "China * * * production party Wuhan temporary branch", and held a solemn oath ceremony in Xie's home on February 1937. Xie died in Henan during the liberation war, when he was the vice president of the Central Plains July 7th Newspaper.
Xiao Shu: Don't you know it's dangerous to be a producer?
Li Rui: Know the danger. After the failure of the Great Revolution, the * * * production party was pursued by Chiang Kai-shek. When I was in Ma Ri incident, I saw the bodies killed in the street. Every time the producer of * * * is killed, he carries a' re and is led by the army from the street. He also plays the bugle, and some people's heads are still hanging in the downtown area. Lu Xun wrote in "Shovel the Grand View" that "a revolution is rarely hung up". That's the kind of thing. He wrote many articles about political prisoners. Many of his young friends were killed by Chiang Kai-shek.
I hated Chiang Kai-shek at that time. The northeast fell, and Jidong was autonomous, but Chiang Kai-shek did not resist. So at that time, regardless of the danger, I made a lot of trouble in Wuhan University. I am the leader of the street parade.
1937 in may, in order to get in touch with the party's organizational relationship, I left school and went to Beiping. I was accompanied by Xie and Yang Chun (Yang died and was the deputy minister of health when he retired). Since then, I have completely become a professional revolutionary, and most of our progressive young people do.
Xiao Shu: Besides reading Lu Xun's books, what other progressive books have you read, especially Marx's books?
Li Rui: The most influential progressive book I read at that time was Red Star over China. Completely from the idea of saving the nation from extinction to national subjugation, only the * * * production party can save China. At that time, Marx didn't read many books, mainly left-wing books. There are Marx's books in the library of Wuhan University, but they are in English. I have never read Mao Zedong's book. Where can I find them?
Xiao Shu: What kind of socialism did you understand at that time?
Li Rui: It's socialism in the Soviet Union. At that time, we thought it was the best doctrine in the world.
Xiao Shu: Why?
Li Rui: Because the Soviet Union is strong. At that time, we thought that the strength of the Soviet Union was the achievement of the planned economy, and we had a positive understanding of the planned economy. At that time, the Soviet Union was regarded by us as a model for the future of mankind.
Xiaoshu: Do intellectuals like Hu Shi have any influence on you?
Li Rui: They have no influence on me. At that time, I scolded Hu Shi.
Xiao Shu: Why?
Li Rui: At that time, Hu Shi organized the Independent Review, and we also watched it, but he was critical of the student demonstrations. I think it is ok for students to March, but we must abide by the law. In his article "On the Student Movement Again", he said: "All large-scale demonstrations must inform the police of the route and destination in advance, and then they can instruct the police to maintain order. In the fourth year of the Republic of China, I saw a 500,000-person parade of "women's participation in politics" in new york, and in the twenty-second year of the Republic of China, I saw a 500,000-person parade of "Blue Eagle Movement" in new york, and there was no commotion. " At that time, Wu University Students' National Salvation Association published the publication "Save China", and I sent an article in "Save China" to respond to Hu Shi. At the beginning of the article, Mr. Hu asked, "Is it in new york or Beiping?" Is it "a crime imposed on students by the interference of these two movements?" If so, the' middle-aged' heart is too poisonous. "The title of the article is Hu Lun's Student Movement" (this article has been compiled into Li Rui's Poems, and the title has been changed to Hu Shi's Theory of Student Movement).
Xiaoshu: You hated Hu Shi at that time.
Li Rui: Yes, it's annoying. I'm not the only one who hates it. Maybe it was common for progressive students at that time. At that time, people who supported the patriotic movement of students dominated the society, and professors and schools of Wuhan University sympathized with students.
There was nothing wrong with opposing Chiang Kai-shek. Now there is a view of history, and we need to consider whether this revolution should be carried out or not. But there was no way to think about it at that time. History is like this, and history has its inevitability.
Enlightened by suffering
Xiao Shu: Have you systematically studied Marxism and learned about capitalism and socialism since you arrived in Yan 'an?
Li Rui: After arriving in Yan 'an, there were only some superficial books to read. At that time, the Marxism we came into contact with was mainly the History of the United Front Party, published by 1938. Mao Zedong also believed in this book, especially Twelve Articles of Boolean Sevik, which was a must-read for cadres in those years.
Xiao Shu: It seems that the socialism you accepted at that time was the kind of socialism mentioned in the history of the United Front Work Department. In the whole Yan 'an era, besides unifying the history of the Party, what books have you read?
Li Rui: There are books by Mao Zedong, Manifesto of the Productive Party, On Left-leaning Infantile Diseases and Imperialism by Lenin, and Popular Philosophy by Ai Siqi. Chen Boda's pamphlets have a great influence, including Reading the Investigation Report of Hunan Peasant Movement, Counter-revolution and Revolution during the Civil War, About Ten Years of Civil War, Comment on the Fate of China and Four Families in China. He was appreciated by Mao Zedong and was elected as an alternate member of the Central Committee at the Seventh National Congress. He was regarded as the theoretical authority of the Party, and his book was the best one to explain socialism, Mao Zedong Thought and Marxism at that time.
Xiao Shu: When did the systematic study of the original works of Marxism-Leninism begin? For example, read the complete works of Marxism-Leninism.
Li Rui: Not at that time. At that time, the complete works of Marxism-Leninism were not available, and the selected works of Marxism-Leninism were only available after the 1950s.
Xiao Shu: So, during the whole Yan 'an period, you basically didn't come into contact with the works of classic writers?
Li Rui: Very little contact. Starting from the rectification movement, the main task is to study the documents since the Sixth National Congress of the Communist Party of China, eliminate erroneous ideas within the Party and establish Mao Zedong Thought's absolute authority.
Xiao Shu: Liu Shaoqi has played a major role in this respect.
Li Rui: Not only Liu Shaoqi and Chen Boda, but also Zhang Ruxin, you know?
Xiao Shu: Not very familiar with it.
Li Rui: He is a teacher of Marxism-Leninism College, and worked as a reading secretary of Mao Zedong in Yan 'an. At that time, he wrote two articles, "Hold High the Mao Zedong Thought Banner", which were published in Liberation Weekly. Jiefang Daily was founded in 194 1, and then Jiefang Weekly stopped publishing. It was Zhang Ruxin who first put forward the concept of "Mao Zedong Thought", earlier than Liu Shaoqi. But Zhang Ruxin is eccentric. Later, Mao Zedong abandoned him and made Chen Boda a secretary.
Xiao Shu: To sum up, in fact, you didn't systematically study Marxism in the whole war years before 1949.
Li Rui: There is no system. At that time, there were only a few scattered books, which were not widely circulated in the party.
Xiao Shu: At that time, you were a great intellectual in the Party.
Li Rui: You can also say that. At that time, there were few college students among the three generations in the party.
Xiao Shu: A great intellectual like you, who has read so little Marxism-Leninism, can imagine the theoretical accomplishment of others.
Li Rui: Most people just read popular books and touch second-hand books. The main reason is that there are too few original works. Mao Zedong is a good reader, but I'm afraid he is no exception.
Xiao Shu: So your systematic contact with classic works began in the 1950s?
Li Rui: Not really. We were working all the time in the 1950s, so we didn't have time to read or read so many books. The selected works and complete works of Marx and Engels were published only in 1950s, first the selected works and then the complete works. The complete works were not published until the 1970s. So I read the selected works of Marxism-Leninism first.
Xiaoshu: So when did you start reading the original works systematically?
Li Rui: In Qincheng Prison. In recent years, the library has been opened, and the complete works of Marx and Engels, especially Capital, can be borrowed.
Xiao Shu: So after reading the complete works of Marxism-Leninism and Capital, is there any difference between your understanding of socialism and the concept of socialism accepted by reading the History of the United Front Work Department?
Li Rui: It's basically traditional.
Xiao Shu: Have you ever been exposed to books on social democracy? For example, Bernstein, the main theorist of the Second International?
Li Rui: No, Kaucki didn't touch any books, except Lenin wrote a book: Proletarian Traitor Kaucki. This is reflected in my collection of Qin Cheng's poems, The Purple Collection of Qin Gui, including the section "Wen Shu". The books I read in prison are: British Working Class, German Ideology, Manifesto of Producers' Party, Letters from Marx and Engels, Eighteen Foggy Months in louis bonaparte, French Civil War, Anti-Turin Theory, Family Private Ownership and the Origin of the Country, Capital, and Country and Revolution, among which Capital. I remember this long speech was published in the magazine Reading in the 1980s.
Xiao Shu: That is to say, before the Cultural Revolution, you had no impression of the Social Democratic Party or the Social Democratic Party?
Li Rui: Not really. Know a little about Liebknecht and Luxembourg.
Xiao Shu: Is that all you know about the Social Democratic Party and the Social Democratic Party?
Li Rui: Yes.
Xiaoshu: So when did your idea change?
Li Rui: I put a question mark when I was in Yan 'an.
Xiao Shu: What's the reason?
Li Rui: I joined the * * * production party mainly to save the country, but I also want democracy. However, the actual situation in Yan 'an is not satisfactory. I don't like some hierarchies and backwardness. In fact, we don't agree with egalitarianism. Leaders are old-timers, who have suffered so much. They have no complaints about eating better, dressing better and living better. The main complaint is about democracy. From about 1940 to 194 1 year, some comrades of the Central Youth League Committee published a big wall newspaper, Qingqi Brigade, which criticized some phenomena that were considered backward or not pleasing to the eye. I am also one of the activists. I have written articles in previous issues.
Then there is the rescue movement. How can you admit that you are a spy after being arrested? If you don't admit it, you will be tortured to extract a confession. No sleep, no blinking at you for 24 hours I have spent five days and five nights (some as long as half a month). Can you stand it?
Without democracy and the rule of law, I suffered a lot. The first time was the rescue movement, and the second time was 1959. After the Lushan meeting, he was expelled from the party and exiled for labor reform. Especially during the Cultural Revolution, I stayed in Qin Cheng for eight years.
Laugh at Shu: The second suffering made you understand more.
Li Rui: I have changed a lot since 1959. From my own experience, I agree with what Deng Xiaoping said. What is socialism is still unclear. But in any case, it is obvious that socialism cannot be without democracy and the rule of law. Now put forward a harmonious society, one of the prerequisites of harmony is democracy. How can there be harmony without democracy, freedom of speech and freedom of the press?
Xiao Shu: On this issue, all socialist countries have gone through detours. Does this reveal a regularity?
Li Rui: That's true. Socialist countries have gone through detours, which shows that not only future generations have problems, but also classical writers' theories, from economic politics to ideology. Such as violent revolution, dictatorship of the proletariat, elimination of private ownership, etc., were all proved to be problematic and unscientific by later history. Engels actually reflected on these issues in his later years.