The following is a written record:
Commentary: She is the first person to describe China's criminal psychology.
Li Meijin: Criminals are actually a group between normal people and mental patients.
Commentary: How does she observe the normal state of human nature?
Li Meijin: When a person is completely out of touch with this field, when he first hears such a thing, they can't stand it, they will feel terrible about this society, and then they will live with some despair or disappointment.
Commentary: How does she weigh the contradiction between the truth of the case and the public's right to know?
Li Meijin: I should also keep some criminals' feelings, or something with self-esteem.
Commentary: The mystery behind celebrity face to face's interview with Li Meijin.
Li Meijin was praised by the media as "the first portrait of China's criminal psychology" and participated in the analysis and detection of many major cases. He is the first scholar to enter the field of criminal psychology in China.
Li Meijin: In other words, I study behavioral psychology more. In other words, why and how he died has nothing to do with me. I just want to know how he died. How he died actually depends on his behavior.
Snippet from Criminal Psychology: Our suspect will rape the victim, force-feed his head and pose in prayer. I know it sounds incredible, but I think the suspect is fascinated by mantis, which explains why he makes the victim's fingertips face down instead of up. Mantis can kill many creatures, but there is an interesting phenomenon, that is, female mantis often eats people sexually, that is, she bites off her spouse's head immediately after mating.
Commentary: This is the most common picture in the American TV series Criminal Psychology. Every time I hear these analyses, people will be curious about how criminal psychologists restore the truth from a foggy case. Today, we are honored to invite Mr. Li Meijin to listen to the story behind this mystery.
Li Meijin: Let me give you an example. For example, I have a puppy at home. Sometimes it wakes up suddenly, then jumps down from the place where it sleeps, then stretches and starts walking towards you. It starts staring blankly in front of you, then looks at you, and then at other places. Then you can dub at this time. Why did you come? I think I'm a little hungry, but I don't want to eat. This dubbing is actually analyzing its behavioral mentality and what its psychological activities are at this time. So we sometimes analyze some crimes. If he does this kind of behavior, what kind of psychology should he have? This psychological possibility, in other words, is that I filled in the subtext for him.
Xu Gehui: You just told me that you don't actually do interrogations, but I thought you did research on criminal psychology and participated in many interrogations.
Li Meijin: No, several. What I am good at is missing persons, which is called behavioral analysis. Then why is it called criminal psychological portrait? Is that you haven't seen this man. Then this situation will be encountered in many cases, which means that there are few physical evidence at the scene. For example, we can carry out investigation according to physical evidence, and there is basically no physical evidence, no footprints, no fingerprints, no blood type, no DNA and nothing. So you have nothing but a corpse, so in this case, you can only analyze it from other aspects. So this kind of problem is often encountered in this situation, and there may be more people looking for me.
Commentary: Criminal psychology has only a history of 30 years in China, but it has been studied in Europe and America for over 100 years. People are used to calling criminal psychologists profilers. In the United States, it takes at least ten years of criminal investigation experience to become a criminal profiler. In addition, you have to play with knowledge in psychology, forensic medicine, sociology and other fields, so in the eyes of the public, a case that may be clear at a glance is often another "scene" in the eyes of experts.
Li Meijin: I think it was 20 12. At that time, there was a case of eleven crimes committed by an official in Hubei, which was a suicide case. After this case happened, the police made an appraisal conclusion that this person committed suicide, and then there was an uproar on the Internet. So at that time, some media found me, found me, because I would come into contact with a lot at work, just because I just said it. It often involves some difficult cases, and I have encountered similar cases, so I made it clear at that time that I thought the public security appraisal was correct and he committed suicide, but I also told the media that I am not a forensic doctor, so you'd better ask a professional forensic doctor. So the reporter called an expert at East China University of Political Science and Law, who was a forensic doctor. His answer at that time was exactly the same as mine. He thinks this evaluation is correct. He said there were suicides abroad, more than one hundred dollars. Then there may be many cases in our work. Like many cases I have experienced, I won't tell anyone. Generally, all the cases I have commented on are media cases, but I also briefly mention one case. There is a case in which this person has a hammer point on his brain, that is, the hammer hits the top of his head and then there is a cut on his wrist. Finally, he had some other knives on him, but what really caused his death was that a knife stabbed him in the heart, and then. So that means this person has a hammer point, a cut, and then this knife, so from the forensic point of view, any of these three points.
Xu Gehui: Both are fatal.
Li Meijin: It will lead to his death, so they think this man should be killed.
Xu Gehui: Because there can't be three. What is this order? A person may be dead.
Li Meijin: Therefore, this is also a difficult case. At this time, they found me. In fact, crime research involves many fields of knowledge, especially in investigation. I think the investigation itself depends on many scientific means and technologies, so this, that is, I am not a forensic doctor, so I didn't look at it from the perspective of forensic medicine at that time. But from the behavioral point of view, there was a decrease at that time, that is, I thought he should go to a place first, and he wanted to commit suicide. He had two moves, one of which was to hammer his head, but he didn't die. Then, finally, he began to cut his wrist. He's not dead. Why? Because judging from the traces of the scene, that is to say, he has a moving performance in the middle of a forest, and there is blood on the tree at this height, which means that he once touched and hugged the tree with this hand, so the blood on his wrist will stay on the tree. At this time, if it is possible that someone else is hurting him, such as dragging him forward and cutting his wrist, it is also possible. Then, but in his final death, he had a splash. He was in front of a pillar, which was a brick house. At that time, he splashed a lot. What can we judge from this splash? He can do it himself, that is, if he throws a knife at this wall, it will cause a heart, and then this will appear this splash. If he had his back to this wall, there wouldn't be such a spattered blood, so the real death was that he stabbed him in the chest with the last knife. So I didn't recover to this degree at first, and I was also troubled by this at that time, but I felt that the three sequences should be in this order. Later, I met a forensic doctor, who is also a famous forensic doctor in Guangdong. He gave me a hint. He said, have you ever thought about suicide? I suddenly understood this sentence, because the order of this behavior can only be explained by suicide, and homicide is difficult to explain. So later I understood, that is to say, later I asked him why he thought of this question. He said that in fact, when committing suicide, sometimes one means can't die, and he will change to another means. When he wants to kill you, it's basically simple except bullying.
Xu Gehui: He will do whatever it takes to get what he wants. Is that so?
Li Meijin: If he is a bully, he will have all kinds. Some of his wounds will appear in other places, and all the wounds of this person are accessible.
Xu Gehui: Oh, I see.
Li Meijin: Right? One of the psychoanalytic portraits in the investigation is the psychological appraisal of the cause of death.
Xu Gehui: Yes, as a matter of fact, I've been thinking about it when you told me just now. It was this road that led to his final death. It seems that this field is not suitable for your study. What you need to study is how strong this person must be to let death kill himself again and again by such deadly means.
Li Meijin: Yes, this is an analysis, but criminal psychological analysis is not just a problem. What you said is actually a question of behavioral motivation. Motivation is the most difficult to analyze. Generally speaking, I will do case analysis now, and my motivation will not be too forward. I think more about the first person, what kind of person he is, and the second, how he does it. I care about his behavior. Then the third is the psychological problem of behavior.
Li Meijin: When a person is a complete stranger in this field, he will feel terrible about the society when he sees such photos for the first time. He told me in court that I asked the judge to sentence me to death.
Commentary: When a hot case appears, the media will inevitably invite Li Meijin to comment and analyze it. As an expert in criminal psychology, she has solved countless problems, but she has become a public figure from behind the scenes. Li Meijin, the "problem solver", was troubled by a problem for a long time.
Xu Gehui: Your research work has been behind the scenes for a long time, but in recent years, you have frequently come to Taiwan Province because of the public's concern about many criminal cases. What do you feel most tired in this process?
Li Meijin: The most tiring thing is that you can't tell the whole story. The question you asked is actually quite good. No one has asked me this question yet. Because we know that crime is a very painful thing in our society. In fact, I think it's not just the victims and their relatives who are suffering. If a case is completely exposed to society, many people will be hurt. I remember once taking one of my graduate students, a girl, to a place to analyze a case. I'm looking at the forensic examination of this case. Then, his photos are all tragic photos of the victims. I have children. She sat on my left, and the detective gave me the photo. After reading it, I handed it to the student directly. Because she is my student, I didn't think much. Later, I found that she didn't eat much from dinner after this case to breakfast the next day, and then she rarely talked. Then I suddenly reacted. It was the first time that she was exposed to such a terrible picture, so later, that's why I didn't take girls to do this kind of thing, that is, to do case analysis. Then there was another time, I remember, me and.
Xu Gehui: Have you experienced such a process yourself?
Li Meijin: No, I think my EQ is particularly weak in this respect. A situation like this makes me understand that there are many things about crime, including its scene and the whole case. Not everything can be said, especially in front of outsiders. When a person is completely out of touch with this field, it is a problem to see such a picture for the first time, or to hear such a thing for the first time, and then feel that this society is terrible, and then live with some such despair or disappointment. Another problem is that when talking about some cases, I should not only consider the victims, but even consider the relatives of criminals. In fact, this problem is just like the Ma Jiajue case in 2004, which had a great social impact at that time, because there were few national wanted notices at that time, and the whole country wanted them, so everyone was concerned.
Commentary: In 2004, Ma Jiajue, a college student, killed four people in his dormitory, which shocked the whole country. Judging from the evidence at that time, he didn't kill people for money or on impulse, and his behavior was by no means a mental patient. The police involved in the case told Li Meijin that the Ma Jiajue case was worth studying.
Li Meijin: At that time, the most controversial issue in this case was his motive. Then I went to do research, and I understood his motives. But at that time, I already had this consciousness. That is to say, he killed four people for this matter, but he was actually covering up one of his own things. Then he did commit a crime and he should bear legal responsibility. However, I think this thing he covers up is the normal state of human nature.
Commentary: What is Ma Jiajue's criminal motive? It was a hot topic at that time. Many people attribute the reason to "the self-esteem of the poor". Li Meijin insisted on publishing an analysis report on Ma Jiajue's criminal psychology after Ma Jiajue was executed. She said that poverty was not the starting point of the problem, but what really led to Ma Jiajue's crime was his strong depression, distorted outlook on life and self-centered personality defect.
Li Meijin: Even if a criminal commits a crime, he still has something related to him, that is, some very secret feelings or something of self-esteem. I should keep it for him, too, and I shouldn't be in a hurry to expose it to him.
Xu Gehui: But what if it conflicts with the public's right to know?
Li Meijin: I don't think this knowledge is meaningful to the public, that is, you don't need to know in advance, but you should believe that our laws are just. So there is no problem in the judicial process, no problem, so I don't have to say that he is gone when he is alive, which means that this confidential question exists for him, and he is gone, so I may give you an answer, and that's enough. He himself has asked to die for it. He told me in court that I asked the judge to sentence me to death. Then finally, he said that his sister asked you to appeal, and he refused to appeal himself. So I think he has been responsible for his actions and has the courage to take responsibility.
Xu Gehui: But is that what you just said about helplessness? Or the tired part?
Li Meijin: This is the second level.
Xu Gehui: You can't tell the whole truth.
Li Meijin: Yes, this is the second angle. Then later, I saw his family, including his sister, interviewed many times and made many comments online. They are also depressed. For example, when a criminal appears, he says this is another Ma Jiajue. So I think it's actually time and time again.
Xu Gehui: Re-open their scars.
Li Meijin: Yes, scars. Personally, I think the victim is actually innocent and painful, but sometimes you think about it. I just said a criminal himself, so now I want to talk about the relatives of criminals and their relatives. It should be said that after the fact that one of his relatives committed a serious crime, there is no turning back, and he will be punished by law and even condemned by the whole society. Then his relatives will come first. Then they can hardly get any sympathy and help in society. therefore ...
Xu Gehui: Xu Gehui: It is these people who still stay there and want to move on with their lives.
Li Meijin: Right, so I think this is the third level I will see again. Don't simply get angry, and don't simply reprimand some relevant personnel. It's about understanding why this person is doing this. When we understand why he did it, how can we stop him from doing it in the future? So this is the most helpless thing when I want to contact the media at work.
Li Meijin: Actually, I'm not defending myself, but people think that since you give him a reason to commit a crime.
Xu Gehui: This is a defense.
Li Meijin: Criminals are actually a group between normal people and mental patients.
Commentary: On 20 10, Yao Jiaxin, a college student, hit someone with a car in the middle of the night and stabbed the injured several times. The case that led to his death was raging on the Internet. Li Meijin asked in a program, "Why didn't Yao Jiaxin stab one knife or two knives, but six knives?" The reasons for this phenomenon are analyzed.
Li Meijin: There is a word in psychology, which is usually called compulsion. What is coercion? That is, the action he does is often not an interesting action, but a mechanical action he is doing. What about this action? What does it often become? Substitution behavior. When he stabbed the girl with a knife, I thought that when he was psychologically wronged, when he was in pain and when he was unwilling, the action of pressing on the piano was the same. When I am not satisfied, I play the piano itself to vent my inner anger or emotions. So, when he met this unpleasant stimulus again, he saw a person injured and remembered his car number. His behavior of holding a knife is actually similar to playing the piano.
Commentary: Li Meijin's words aroused overwhelming anger, and everyone accused her of defending Yao Jiaxin by playing the piano. During that time, her blog was full of curses every day.
Li Meijin: Many times I will talk about this, that is to say, whether he should die is not for me, but for the court to judge. So this person is hateful or not. I don't know, but the important thing is why he is like this.
Xu Gehui: But everyone's anger comes from the feeling that you are not black and white, and you are defending this criminal, which everyone can't tolerate.
Li Meijin: Actually, I'm not defending myself, but people think that since you have given him a reason to commit a crime.
Xu Gehui: This is a defense.
Li Meijin: Give him an excuse, right? So this is the most painful thing for me in recent years. But I think some changes have taken place in the past two years, especially when I introduced some related research in some media.
Xu Gehui: You think people will become more and more rational.
Li Meijin: Yes, I can understand many things on the Internet now, so I am particularly happy that many young people even leave messages on the Internet saying that they misunderstood you and disrespected your remarks, and then apologize to you. When I saw these words, I really felt, alas, this is a special satisfaction, which means that you finally got everyone's understanding.
Video clip: Stand up and report to Mr. Li about the pre-class assembly of 09 investigation class of Public Security University. There should be 35 people, but there are actually 35 people. The report is over. Please advise.
All right, class.
Yes
Commentary: Since the mid-1980s, Li Meijin has been teaching criminal psychology in public security universities. She said that she had been teaching materials for nearly ten years, laying the foundation for research. Until 1992, she got an internship in the local police station. One year's practical experience made Li Meijin have a new understanding of his major.
Li Meijin: I also did the preliminary examination for half a year, and occasionally tried one or two cases. I remember in the early days, I was basically a failure.
Xu Gehui: I don't know.
Li Meijin: Because I remember a girl who worked in Qingdao at the earliest. At that time, my master gave me a job, that is, ask her directly if she has been to Qingdao, and then ask this question clearly. But after several visits, it seems to be a counterfeiting gang, which specializes in making fake things and then selling them, including cigarettes and so on. What about this girl? At that time, I thought she was a girl from the countryside, especially honest, and then she plunged into the end without looking up. I just sat next to her and started chatting with her, just to close the psychological distance and let her relax. However, I just told her how old she was and what she did at home, and then she had several brothers and sisters. So when did this come out? Did she tell anyone? I asked for the final conclusion, that is. No, she just didn't say a word. I said Qingdao is not far from your home. I said there are so many people in your village. You should come and see them. I said it should be easy. Never been here, never been here, just never been here Later, I told my teacher that according to my understanding of her, she had never been here. My master said she was lying to you. I said it was impossible, which was particularly funny, because he asked others and knew who had been here. Then he said, bring her here, then take her out, take her to our master's office, and let her sit down. What's your name? My master asked her, which was totally different from mine. Then she was particularly surprised. She wiped her tears and said, "Come on." Oh, my whole heart is broken. I didn't know this until later. In fact, criminals sometimes have a lot to do with us. We should say that they are good people, including some of our scholars. He may not be in the same world. Really, sometimes you are at the bottom of society, including some practical departments, such as judges, prosecutors and our police. That's it. For example, we always say how rude they are now. Anyway, this criticism is right. They are sometimes very painful, that is, the practical department. The nature of their work determines some problems they face. In the process of solving them, sometimes they do have some effective methods. However, this is our ideal requirement, or more civilized requirement, which is another level.
Xu Gehui: I understand. What you're saying is that he speaks in different contexts, which must be a chicken talking with a duck.
Li Meijin: Different contexts are actually different backgrounds and different social backgrounds.
Xu Gehui: Yes.
Li Meijin: Some of them are, for example, Lombrosr, an Italian scholar who was the first person to study criminals. He said that criminals are actually a group between normal people and mental patients. He thinks there are many criminals, and he is not the kind of person we jurists think. He said that there are actually many jurists who stand on the moral level and then show an idealized state to some social problems. He said, actually, what about these people, such as the supervised police, who are prison guards, and then contact their judges, prosecutors, police, and relatives around these criminals? Their understanding of these people (criminals) is often on the moral level or on the theoretical level. So we will find that some criminals have given up on him and even their families and won't let them go home. Why? Because he not only endangered society, but also endangered his family, and then the family tried to frame the police. What about the police? They need to act according to the law. So sometimes, the society we see is that I am in this angle, I am in contact with the practical department, and I am also in contact with the theoretical circle, so I can often feel the conflict between these two circles.